I remember the first time I saw Ed at the bar. It was the weekly “Gay Night”. He was standing at the bar by the dance floor, drinking a mixed drink with his circle of friends. He was, in my mind, the sexiest black man I had ever seen and completely out of my league.
A few months went by and we happened to be at the same New Year’s Eve party and ended up talking, he even sat on my lap. When college classes started back up he and I started texting and we even went out as friends for a drink at a Mexican restaurant. This happened several times. After a night of going out to eat he invited me back to his place where I sat down on the floor by his bed. I guess I was a little nervous. He went on to explain to me he never makes the first move. That gave me the courage to take that chance and we ended up making out. A relationship grew and I moved out of the college dorms and in with him, my boyfriend.
I was accepted, for the most part, by his friends and even his family. On Thanksgiving and Christmas we would go to his mother’s who cooked true “Southern Home Cook’n.” I was the only “white boy” in the house during our holiday celebration, but it never was a problem and likewise at his family reunions, I was made to feel like part of the family, I even took his sister to her prom. He taught me how to twist his hair and use grease, it’s silly but I liked how his hair was like curly lambs wool. When we would travel 800 miles to the North to see my family they left no doubt in my mind that they accepted him without question. When my little sister was learning to talk, she made it a point to learn to say his name before mine.
I wish everyone would have been as accepting as our families. We would get pulled over by the police, this happened more than once and it happened for little to no reason at least none we could see. The police would make it a point to search the car and pat us down. Love is love despite color, age, or race. Love does not discriminate, but we found out the hard way that people do.
Being in an interracial relationship was just like being in any relationship and just like all couples we had our ups and downs. Sometimes relationships change, people change and circumstances change. We had been together for a year when I found out that I was HIV-Positive. I was tested annually at the college health fair and every year my test came back negative. Then the unthinkable happened and my worst fears were realized. There were so many fears. There was the fear of telling him, there was the fear of the stigma of HIV/AIDS and there was the fear of the unknown. Later on he was tested, and he found out that he too was HIV positive, his CD4 counts were lower than mine and it was determined that he had it first and had transmitted it to me.
After we found out he didn’t want to tell anyone about our HIV status, it became our ‘little’ secret. Maybe his silence came from being a proud black man that just happened to be gay, but it was my burden to bare too. He seemed to have become emotionally shut down. We would go to the doctor together, yet we would not talk about the elephant in the room. We never talked about anything having to do with what it’s like being gay and HIV positive in East Texas. He never wanted to talk about the guilt he felt for infecting me, but I could see it in his eyes. It’s hard to keep a secret like HIV to oneself and not feel like you are perpetuating the stigma. It’s doubly hard to be each other’s support system when we all we do is carry our burdens instead of carrying and supporting each other.
I thought we still loved each other. He was my support system, boyfriend, and lover. I would advise against staying silent keeping your status to yourself even in the face of Stigma or harassment for whatever the reason we are all human we are all individuals which makes us all different we must embrace that.
Welcome everyone to my first love and advice column. Our fans have been so good to us over the years that I just wanted to give a little something back to the community and this is as little as it gets. As I’m writing this I am poolside in sunny Florida sipping a mojito and dictating my new column to our pool boy Alejandro. I’m doing everything in my power to give this sweet boy an odd job or two to help him work his way through pet grooming school and you know what, it’s harder than you think to shape a poodle tail in to a little ball. Poor Alejandro’s always seems come out phallic shaped, I know he will keep working on it until he gets it right. If you need advice on love, life or how to mix that perfect drink don’t hesitate to write me, firstname.lastname@example.org.
Dear Wilma, I’m a young gay man in Northwest Indiana area and I’m wondering where I can go to meet other single men that doesn’t involve apps or online dating? Signed, Lonely Homo
Dear Homo, Northwest Indiana has a very open and friendly group of gay men that host events, and there’s no need to go alone! Have you ever heard the phrase, “Don’t go stag, drag the hag?” Get one of your lady friends and head out to Dark Star on Thursdays for Karaoke, Or you can follow the OUT in NWIN’s Facebook page for our local drag shows that are hosted in Michigan City, Portage and Winfield. Good Luck! XOXO
Hi Wilma! Have you ever had a doctor cup your balls and fondle them? Is this normal? What are they checking for? Thanks, Touched and Confused
Dear Touched, Heavens NO! I’m a lady for fucks sake. I’m no Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman, but I believe that this will help to determine if you have a hernia. It’s either that or your doctor thinks you’re cute. XOXO
Dear Wilma, My boyfriends penis is really thick, do you have any tips for me? Sincerely, Ouchy
Dear Ouchy, Have you heard of booze and lube? That’s how I do it. XOXO
Dear Wilma, Valentine’s Day is coming and I was wanting some input, what would you do for a first date on Valentine’s Day? Where would you take your date and how much is appropriate to spend? Thank you, Anonymous Hopeless Romantic
Dear Anonymous, My legs rise according to the dollars spent, and “the sky’s the limit!” Seriously though, I think this is going to depend on the person you’re dating. I’ve spent many Valentine’s Days at home, but we’ve also indulged in $700 dinners in the City. Why don’t you cut to the chase and ask them what they want to do? You could spend as little as $50 for some pizza, a thoughtful card and Netflix, or thousands on a night on the town. I would let your date lead the way. Regardless, I think a nice card and some flowers always do the trick! Good Luck! XOXO
Wilma Fingerdo and Welcome to the Other Side can be seen performing at Shenanigan’s in Portage on February 25th 2017.
Betsy DeVos was sworn in today as Secretary of Education in a highly contentious confirmation process that split the United States Senate 50/50 down party lines with Vice President Mike Pence casting the deciding vote. DeVos, who has zero experience in education or administration and whose family has given millions of dollars to the Republican Party, was called by the editor of the Detroit Free Press, Stephen Henderson, “…a lobbyist-someone who has used her extraordinary wealth to influence the conversation about education reform, and to bend that conversation to her ideological convictions despite the dearth of evidence supporting them.”Fury 2014 movie streaming
The controversy surrounding DeVos does not stop at her lack of experience, but how her leadership of the U. S. Department of Education will affect the thousands of LGBT students across the county. As a religious conservative DeVos’ family has given thousands of dollars in donations to anti-gay organizations such as Focus on the Family, a group that still supports the wildly denounced practice of conversion therapy for gays. A practice that former Indiana governor and now Vice-President of the United States, Mike Pence still supports. DeVos’ father, Edger Price even donated thousand of dollars to help found the anti-gay Family Research Council. Wanting to focus on education and charter schools it has not been reported that DeVos or her husband Richard have made donations to any anti-LGBT religious organizations, just the DeVos family in general. At one time DeVos called on Dave Agema, a Republican from Michigan, to step down from the Republican National Committee because of disparaging comments made about the LGBT community.
Chad Griffin, president of the Human Rights Campaign expressed his concerns in a statement saying, “The DeVos family has a long, well-documented history of funding organizations dedicated to undermining and restricting the rights of LGBTQ people.” Stephanie White, the executive director of Equality Michigan, DeVos’ home state, believes that Ms. DeVos’ view on LGBT issues has “evolved,” noting, “she’s shown a capacity to grow in her understanding of LGBT issues.”
Voting to confirm DeVos was Indiana Senator Todd Young (R), who has received approximately $48,000 in campaign contributions from the DeVos family last year. In a statement to NUVO, Indianapolis’ alternative newspaper, Senator Young stated, “I voted for Betsy DeVos because she has devoted her life to the field of education. She has an unwavering belief that parents should be in charge of making choices about their child’s education. I look forward to working with Ms. DeVos following her swearing in as Secretary of Education.”
There is no telling which way the new Secretary of Education will handle sensitive subjects such as transgender bathroom or locker room rights, and with a stroke of her pen she could rescind all of President Obama’s executive orders for transgender students. One thing is for sure, the controversy surrounding Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos and the other picks President Trump choose for his Cabinet is sure to continue.
Donald Trump’s election has literately torn families apart in a way that hasn’t been seen since the Civil War. Maybe that’s a little extreme, but I certainly have never seen anything like this in my lifetime.
My family is no different. My younger brothers support Trump. My mom, my daughter, my husband and I disagree with them on a very fundamental level. There is no easy fix for this, it’s not something I can ‘just get over’ or even forgive, at least not now and maybe not ever. It goes beyond simple politics, it hits at the root of racism, misogyny, gullibility, and common sense. I love my family I especially love my bothers and I have always supported them, they have never done anything to ever make me ashamed or be disappointed in them, until now. Their support of a reality TV star, who is proud of the fact that he feels he can do whatever he wants to women because he is successful not only leaves me disillusioned with my brothers, but with half of this country. I accused one of my brothers of loving his addiction to ‘White Privilege.’ His response was “if working hard to raise a child and paying my bills is white privilege than yes I have white privilege.” After that statement, I simply asked him, “When was the last time you were pulled over for driving while Caucasian?”
As a typical Trump supporter he did not ‘get it’ nor will he ever because he and a lot of other Trump supporters, or should I say insecure white guys. Insecure white guys who want to go back in time and live in a world that never really existed. The idyllic world of post World War II 1950s where woman were women and men were men and there was not a person of color in sight and no one had ever heard of a same sex couple. They want a world where Bruce Jenner is still Bruce Jenner, where he’s on the cover of the Wheaties box and pees in the men’s room. They want a world that if a President of the United States visits Japan he would shake hands with Japanese Prime-minister. As is Japanese custom the Prime-minister would bow to a visiting dignitary. President Obama in showing respect to that countries people and culture while visiting Japan bowed to the Prime-minister. Angry white guys didn’t like that, “American’s bow to no one, especially the President!”
There is such a thing as ‘healthy fear’ and ‘healthy shame’. Healthy fear protects us and others from engaging in behavior that doesn’t get us or others hurt or killed. Healthy shame keeps us out of jail. You can find both of these qualities in leaders. Mind you I said leaders, NOT bosses. All leaders are bosses but not all bosses are leaders and right now Donald J. Trump is going to be sworn in NOT as America’s 45th President, but as America’s boss and anyone who does not follow the employee hand book is going to be written up, written off, and fired.
Donald Trump has never had to fear anything or feel ashamed of his behavior. I do not think that at his core he is able to feel or understand those concepts. That does not make him a strong leader, that makes him a dangerous leader. When leaders have no fear, shame, humility, and no conscience, people die. Real leaders set examples and earn respect. Bosses give orders and expect unquestioning blind obedience.
I want to believe President Obama with all of my heart when he said at his final press conference, that he believes we will all be okay. ‘It will be okay.’ That sounds suspiciously like something your Dad would say if you had to go to the hospital for surgery as a kid. You KNEW deep down it would be okay, but you also knew that recovery was going to hurt like hell.
Eight years ago at this time I felt hope. Eight years later hope has left the building, it left the building when intolerance and uncertainty showed up.
One of the last things my brother told me was that I was ‘everything that was wrong with this country.’ I’ll own that, and I’ll wear it on my sleeve like I do my heart and my attitude. In the mean time an ‘Amber Alert’ has been issued for ‘HOPE.’ I don’t think it will be missing for long, just long enough for us to miss it.
And that my friends is my view from the other side of the lake.
Convicted former U. S. Army intelligence analyst Chelsea Manning was released from federal prison today. Manning posted a Tweet commemorating her release. Chelsea Manning @xychelsea Manning said in a statement after her release, “I am looking forward to so much! Whatever is ahead of me is far more important than the past. I’m figuring things out right now – which is exciting, awkward, fun, and all new for me.” Manning remains on unpaid active duty with U. S. Army and will retain benefits such as healthcare.
January 18, 2017
As one of his last acts in office, President Barack Obama commuted the sentence of Chelsea Manning. The former Army intelligence analyst was found guilty in 2013 for violating The Espionage Act. Manning came out as transgender after she was sentenced to 35 years in prison without the possibility of parole. Manning had been serving her sentence in a men’s military prison in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, where she found it difficult to deal with the unique problems that comes with transitioning while incarcerated and has attempted suicide at least twice. After pressure from ACLU she was at least allowed to start hormone therapy and partly transition to life as a woman. A petition from Manning supporters that called for her release was sent to President Obama and had received over 100,000 signatures.
Manning, was convicted of leaking over 750,000 documents to Wikileaks which included diplomatic files from American embassies around the world along with other sensitive information. Included in the leaked files was a video of an American Helicopter attack in Baghdad, in which two journalists and other civilians were killed. Manning felt that if she were to release the documents it would open a “worldwide discussion, debates and reforms.” It was never proven that the information Manning leaked caused the death of any Americans or military personal.
The decision to grant Manning clemency has garnered President Obama both praise and scorn alike. Speaker of the House Paul Ryan (R) Called the decision “Outrageous,” and claimed that the President was setting a “dangerous precedent.” Glenn Greenwood, one of the journalists that Manning leaked documents too praised Obama and said via Twitter, “Beyond the whistle blowing, ponder Manning’s courage: she publicly announced her transition in a military prison.” Fellow whistleblower Edward Snowden tweeted to Manning,“stay strong just a while longer.”
Manning is scheduled to be released from prison on May 17, 2017.
Porter Novelli was hired by Indiana after national outrage over the state’s anti-LGBT Religious Freedom Restoration Act was signed into law by Gov. Mike Pence.
According reports that were released last week from Indiana Economic Development Corporation, there was no real reason given as to why taxpayers were stuck with a $365,000 bill from New York-based public relations giant.
The record totaling 1,100 pages gave little to no information what was exactly gained by the hiring of the firm, or how the Hoosier State benefited from it, or why Pence terminated the contract just weeks after retaining them.
Porter Novelli did provide the state with a monitoring radar and daily reports on what was being said about the state in traditional media and social media.
This tracking system kept tabs on influential social media users like Republican pollster Christine Matthews, political strategist Donna Brazile, and Huffington Post senior political reporter Amanda Terkel.
An Apr. 15, 2015 report said that “a number of opinion writers and LGBT community leaders believe spending $2 million in taxpayer money is unnecessary, and that the state should instead pass non-discrimination laws.”
Indiana has so far failed to pass such laws during the current legislative session.
Chris Cotterill, general counsel for the IEDC, spins the hiring of Porter Novelli as nothing to do with RFRA. He explained, “The reason [to hire the firm] was there before. It’s not to make up for something.”
According to a press release that was scrapped just hours before it was sent out, Indiana Commerce Secretary Victor Smith said, “We must acknowledge the recent political controversy surrounding the Religious Freedom Restoration Act has damaged our reputation.”
The release went on to mention RFRA several times.
According to the report, IEDC officials and Porter Novelli edited out any mention of RFRA and the quote attributed to Secretary Smith.
When asked why this version of the release was not used, IEDC Spokeswoman Abby Gras said, “Various word choices were considered in the development of this particular release. All of our press releases at the IEDC go through several rounds of edits; this is pretty standard.”
The documents provided by the IEDC were only released because of a formal complaint issued to Public Access Counselor Luke Britt. He argued that the IEDC had violated the states’ public records law by not releasing the records after they were requested eight months earlier.
John Zody, chairman of the Indiana Democratic Party, submitted a public records request to Pence in July of 2015, seeking all documents and e-mails from Porter Novelli.
According to Zody, “Pence wasn’t being transparent with Hoosiers when he terminated the taxpayer funded contract with Porter Novelli the day before a long holiday weekend. Hoosiers need to know their tax dollars are being managed properly.”
According to Indiana law, public records requests need to rereleased to the requesting parties in a “reasonable” amount of time.
“Simply put, a reasonable period of time has long since elapsed,” Brit wrote in his opinion against the IEDC.
When the IEDC finally complied with the request, what it provided was a document that had either partially, or completely redacted, pages.
Fifty other documents were completely withheld.
According to Cotterill, the reason so much of the report was not made available was to keep top-secret marketing strategies out of the hands of other states.
“If, for example, the IEDC had to reveal all it’s marketing plans, then other states that are competing with Indiana for jobs would have Indiana’s playbook,” Cotterill said. “More than that, they would have the underlying opinions and analyses that lead to the development of our ‘plays’”.
Even after the $365,000 price tag, the RFRA law is still in place. Advocates say that the only damage control the state needed to do was pass LGBT non-discrimination laws, a solution that would have been much less costly both in finical terms and in terms of reputation.
Northwest Indiana is having a drought of sorts—but not for lack of water. Its gay bars have evaporated and left a barren desert when it comes to the traditional gathering places for gays to meet, socialize, and maybe hookup.
Eleven years ago, the popular Helen’s, in Michigan City, closed its doors for the last time. Just a few years ago, Encompass, in Lake Station, shut its doors, too.
If Chicago’s Boystown bars and clubs had a hard time keeping up with the Great Recession, imagine how much harder Northwest Indiana’s gay watering holes suffered. With their shuttering, Hoosiers who didn’t want to drive to the Windy City’s major gayborhood had very few options.
According to the Williams Institute, Michigan City—an hour from Chicago—ranks fourth in Indiana for highest percentage of same-sex couples. Hundreds in the area identify as LGBT. But for many of them, going to “straight bars” to socialize just isn’t the same—leaving many wanting more from the experience.
Gone, too, are the drag shows—a still popular form of entertainment in the greater LGBT community.
Welcome to the Other Side
There is a group of performers that have stepped up to fill the void that bars like Helen’s left. They call themselves, “Welcome to the Other Side.”
WTTOS is a troupe of drag queens and kings, traveling once a month to bars and venues all over Northwest Indiana to entertain, interact, and inspire local LGBT persons. The group managed to endear themselves to hundreds—their devoted fan base.
Once a month, these devout fans travel from wherever they are to places like Shenanigans pub in Portage, or Crossroads in Westville—what some would call a biker bar. There’s a bar attached to a Michigan City bowling alley, called Mug Shots.
While a pub, biker bar, and bowling alley aren’t places one would normally find a drag show, WTTOS have sold out the venues to capacity. Their most recent show was in the reception hall of Michigan City’s Clarion Inn. It brought in around 100 people—each paying $10 to get in.
Wilma Fingerdo is a self-described “football player in a dress.” She stands at 6’4”, without heels, and weighs 250 pounds. She is hard to miss in the crowd.
Wilma is mistress of ceremonies for the show—even called the “Mrs. Garrett” figure in the group, taking care of promotions, public relations, and books the gigs.
Talking with Wilma Fingerdo, Jayda Pill, Dena Richards
Wilma spotted us when we walked in, giving a wave and warm smile. It was two hours before the show even started, and she was working the room with her partner (in business and in life), in drag, Jayda Pill.
I caught local drag legend Dena Richards as she entered the room, and then shortly thereafter, E.J. Marx and Kane Richards—the two resident drag kings.
After trying all week, I’m finally able to get the very busy cast together in one spot to talk to Opus News about the business of doing drag in the Midwest, and how they are more like a family, than just performers who work together.
This evening’s event is a celebration of sorts. May 16 marks the third anniversary of WTTOS being asked to perform at The Warehouse in South Haven.
Jayda, who at over six-feet tall, is sporting a cat-suit with a pattern of Quaaludes and other assorted pills. She’s accessorized her look with high heels, pearls, and a bright orange wig. She towers over me as I start to ask her questions about that first performance.
She seems to remember it like yesterday.
“There was like 300 people. It was over 300. It was a little crazy because I remember being up there doing a number, and I’m forgetting my words almost, because I’m looking at a sea of people,” Jayda said. “They would have to get a bouncer to help get us to the stage for us to do it.”
After that performance, things took off, she explained.
“We thought there’s a need here. So we said, ‘Let’s just do it.’ Bar owners started coming to these shows and started asking us to perform at their bars, like we were doing out in Westville.”
Owners of “straight bars” saw that these shows brought hundreds of new people to their establishments—people who normally wouldn’t come in. Of course, they’re bringing their wallets with them.
What did the regular patrons think about a drag show invading their local watering hole?
Wilma explained that they didn’t seem to mind.
“Even at the Crossroads in Westville! Not to use the terms in a derogatory fashion, but they had a lot of bikers and truckers,” she said. “If we were doing a show and they were to come in, the bartender would explain to them what kind of a show it was. And they would hang around. They almost always had fun.”
How much of an influence do reality shows like RuPaul’s Drag Race have on those bar-goers who stayed for the show—or the general public, for that matter?
Dena—a fixture in Chicago, especially Atmosphere ion Clark Street in Andersonville—chimed in.
“Thank God for RuPaul and his show, because he brought drag to the entire nation,” she said. “Now everybody in Westville has an idea what happens, and how it goes. They were seeing it on their television on a weekly basis so they knew we were out there. They just had to make the connection to see who was out there.”
Dena has been performing in Northwest Indiana for 30 years. We’re told by Wilma that her age is a “highly classified secret.”
“After the bars closed, we had to do something! So, there were little house parties and a couple little venues that were letting us do things on the side, and banquet rooms and stuff like that,” Dena explained. “Then, when they found out we were willing to fill a place that would hold 300 to 400 people, word got around. Next thing you know, everybody wants a piece of that pie.”
Does Northwest Indiana need gay bars?
Most of the audience members I caught up with at the anniversary show said they’re regulars.
Did they think the area needed a gay bar, or had the community outgrown them?
One gentleman answered with an enthusiastic, “Yes!”
Another said, “No.”
The person that said no also said that he felt that a weekly drag performance would be too much exposure for WTTOS. If you only see them once month, then the excitement builds as you wait to see the next one, he explained.
Jayda thought the disappearing gay bars might be part of a generational shift.
“[We’re] in a different generation now…with the Grindr app, and Guy Spy, and all those different ones. This is how kids are meeting each other. They’re not going out and having a social experience.”
So, they’re ordering in, as it were?
“Yes, that’s what it is,” Jayda said. “It’s sad to see that. The physical connection of meeting someone [at a gathering place like this]—that’s very important.”
Wilma, like the others at WTTOS, agree and put a lot of value in face-to-face interaction that they can’t get on an app.
“We always come out an hour early to take photographs,” Wilma said. “Everybody wants a picture for Facebook and all that. We B.S., have a cocktail chat with the people that are there.”
“We always try to make sure we are approachable and friendly to the folks—the folks who’ve come out that we’ve known for years, and those folks who’ve come out for the first time.”
Drag kings E.J. Marx and Kane Richards
E.J. Marx and Kane Richards are drag kings with a following of their own—many of whom are straight women in the audience.
“You feel like a superstar,” E.J. explained his experience with WTTOS. “Like, these people follow you everywhere you go, and it’s amazing. They come and pay the money to get in the door, and they want to see your entertainment. They know you for the songs you do, and when they come up to you after the show, and they’re like, ‘Can I get a picture with you’ or ‘Can I get your autograph?’ I’m like, ‘Really? Are you serious? Absolutely!”
For Kane Richards, a trans man, the anniversary show was doubly meaningful.
“Today is my one year on testosterone,” he said. “I call it my maniversary.”
Kane grew up in a small Midwestern town that was sorely lacking in positive role models for anyone in the LGBT community. He explained coming to terms with who he is, after high school.
“You go through college, and you do all these things, and you find yourself,” he shared. “I found myself, but it wasn’t quite right. I never felt like this is how I was supposed to be.”
Kane said that drag helped him confirm his identity.
“When I put on the fake facial hair, and I see a beard on my face, and I bind my chest—the first time you I looked at the reflection in the mirror, I saw happiness. It was like, ‘This! This is right.’ It was like this light bulb came on and it was a wave of emotions. It was like no words can explain it.”
Both E.J. and Kane got the itch to perform after seeing drag queens perform.
E.J. said a drag queen cousin was an inspiration. After watching her perform, E.J. started to hang out and run in their circle.
“I was like, ‘You know what? I think I can do that. I want to be on stage.’ So they gave me an opportunity. My cousin did my makeup. I picked a number and they introduced me for just one number, one show, and I took it from there.”
Seeing drag for the first time was just as intoxicating for Kane.
“I saw a show and I was like, ‘I can do that. I need to do that. I want to do that. And I started messaging the queens and talking to them,” Kane said. “I did a duet with Dena, but it just kind of spiraled into a duet with me. ‘Do a spotlight with me’ finally became ‘Okay, come join the group.”
We are family
E.J. and Kane have very different acts with unique styles. But they refer to themselves as brothers. In fact, all the members of WTTOS find such closeness to each other. They support each other.
“We are just a big, weird dysfunctional family,” Kane declared.
WTTOS travels with its own disc jockey, DJ Mark Renicker. Like Dena, he was also displaced after Helen’s closed.
The troupe has professional lighting effects, backup dancers for the drag kings, and multiple costume changes.
The show has a lot of raw energy, sharpened wit and sexually charged teases.
How long do they think they can do this?
“It’s fun for me to go up and host a show—and make fun of those people who are my friends,” Wilma explains.
“It’s no different than us hanging out on a Saturday night and making fun of each other, bullshitting and having cocktails. So, I don’t know. As with anything else, it’ll runs its course. I think we will do this as long as we can, as long as it’s fun, and as long as it’s professional.”
“It is a lot of fun. We enjoy each other’s company, and we enjoy our crowds.”